First, this is in response to a question someone posted about modesty on Facebook. I have linked here for anyone who might want to read my response.It could be a little long because I want to share two examples with you after I share my initial thoughts, so if you really want to consider a different perspective, read it and take it as you wish.
I'm not sure that the modesty conversation is only about the sexual nature. While I know that many women find security or pleasure in feeling/looking sexy, I really believe that many other women dress how they're comfortable and don't even rationally consider that it would appear in a sexual way to others. They are just totally comfortable in less material and don't give it a second thought.
Also, I can understand what another responder on Facebook said about women being insecure and judging other women just as much as men looking at those women sexually. Since I've struggled with weight gain the last few years, I could look at others and make negative comments out of jealousy or insecurity, but that is not productive or healthy; it also completely unfair as my weight gain has nothing to do with them.
If my husband notices another woman and comments that she is pretty or her dress looks nice or whatever, that does not mean that he has suddenly loved me less or desired to be sexual with her. He simply noticed her and moved on, just like I probably noticed as well. There is nothing wrong with beauty. Obviously, if he were to then linger over the thought or stare, I would be uncomfortable and question his intention, but that is his issue and not hers.
However, when a woman appears in a manner that is clearly intended to be sexual, then she is also at fault for trying to lure the attention of men. If you know that a man is married and you want him to notice you, then you are wrong for that. Even if you have no intention of interacting with him, if you are seeking to gain his attention or approval, you are wrong. You are basically wanting him to notice you in a way that he should be thinking about his wife. A woman in that situation cannot claim that it is his responsibility to not think of other women that way. It is ridiculous and simple denial of personal accountability. The same goes for dressing in a way to intentionally get the attention of single guys, and then being upset or offended when they respond accordingly. You achieved your desired result, so stop acting offended or like a victim.
In truth, I don't usually look at women in less clothes and think of them as a slut or any other negative thing, I just am truly curious as to how they are comfortable. From my early teen years, when I was actually very fit and had a nice figure, I thought I was fat and unattractive. When I look at pictures of me from any time before I had children, I cannot possibly understand how I thought so negatively of my appearance. I don't know where it came from. My mother never once made comments about my appearance, she wasn't a dieter, or any of the other suggested things that cause young ladies to have low self-confidence. In every other area of my life, I was very confident and had no issues, but I always felt fat and unattractive. So, I truly cannot understand how some women feel comfortable in their own skin, especially when they are not the "ideal physical" shape. I do not mean that in any way that is negative about them, I just wish I could figure out what my problem is. Why can I not be comfortable just as I am physically (whether I'm at a lower weight, or even now)?
Now, here is the other side. When a woman is dressed in a way that literally shows her butt below the edge of her shorts, or her lacy bra is visible for all to see, or her breast are millimeters from becoming fully exposed, I do think that is a problem, whether she has a "good figure" or not. Underwear is called underwear because it goes under your clothes. In our society we have lost the art of keeping things private, whether it's airing our arguments on Facebook, talking about sex or other personal things in public or on FB, making inappropriate jokes in mixed company, or even seriously "making out" in public. It seems that everything is fair game, including wearing little to no clothing wherever you might go. I wonder, when will we realize that we haven't actually gotten many benefits from being so open? In fact, we may have done more harm than good to ourselves as a whole. It's not my place to decide for everyone, but when I was a teacher in current public schools (as recently as this past school year), I can clearly see that our teens are hurting from all the "openness." I could go on and on about it, giving you countless examples, but I won't because this is long enough. I'll simply say that the damage is severe and I fear the long term ramifications. Some of the things that I've heard and seen in the high school, are so extreme, that I couldn't even post them here because of their extremely lewd nature; yet to my students it was completely appropriate and acceptable public behavior/conversation. Even something as direct as asking, "hey, miss, are you a virgin?" Would you have ever asked your high school teacher that question, even more, would you have asked it out loud in front of the class and no one in your class think it was completely out of line or inappropriate? (Not to mention the ignorance, since the teacher is well known to be married with 3 children). If that question seems okay to you, don't dismiss what I'm saying, because that might be one of the least personal questions I've been asked.
So, here are the two examples that originally got me started on replying to this FB post.
First, my two sons (12 & 13) and I were at Walmart in May or June. I'm not sure that it was a single female or just a culmination of them, but suddenly the youngest asked me, "mom, why is it that some girls wear their shorts so short that you can see their butt? Why would anybody want to see their butt?" The conversation continued like this:
me: I'm really not sure. I guess they're comfortable in those shorts. I don't know why they want people to see their butt but I personally would rather not see it.
son1: I don't want to see anyone's butt. That's just gross. (yes, I know that most teenage boys are more sexual by their age, but they just aren't there yet)
son2: I don't want to see anybody's butt either. I don't get it.
me: believe it or not, someday you will want to see your wife's butt, you'll like her butt and you will want to see it.
son(s): that's just weird...I don't get it
me: I know you don't get it, but you will like your wife's butt. It's just how things are. God made us to be attracted to each other and part of that is a visual thing. You will like all the parts of your wife, and that is not a bad thing.
son(s): ok, I guess, but I still don't get it
me: the part I don't get is why men would want other people to see their wife's butt. I'd think that they would rather keep it for just themselves. It is a privilege to see all of each other, and it should be kept as a privilege for only our spouses.
So, some people would not like how I had this discussion with my boys, but I find it best to just be honest with them. And, the truth is, someday they will like looking at a girl's butt. Yes, I'm aware that they'll like butts other than their wife's before they get married, but that wasn't part of this conversation. Also, you can clearly see that I did not in anyway demean the women who wear the short shorts, I simply said that I do not know personally why or how, but they must be comfortable.
A few weeks later, we were sitting at Taco Bell late one night after they had been at Merge (a middle school evening gathering). A girl came in wearing a shirt that had the sleeves cut out and her black, leopard print & lace bra was visible. Depending on how much she moved, at times you could see the entire cup and everything. My youngest son saw her when she came in and he said, "what the heck is she wearing?" Then he looked at her again, with a very confused look, and said, "why would she wear that?" I said, "I don't know son, but don't look at her like that" (at this point his confused look was noticeable and turning into a negative look-like she was a mutant or something). :) We didn't continue the conversation that night because he stopped looking at her and moved on. Now, this was clearly not a situation where he was looking at her in a sexual way. He just couldn't figure out why she was dressed that way.
So, the point I want to make here is that even if children aren't looking at something sexually, they can understand that some things are private and shouldn't be publicly displayed. If they aren't used to that manner of dress, they can be confused and bothered by it. If they are used to it, they probably don't react because it is normal to them. It makes logical sense that our butts are not for everyone to see and neither are women's under garments. Interestingly enough, my boys have been to Uganda multiple times on mission trips, and they have seen women breast feeding without any covering what so ever. At no time have they been bothered by this natural occurrence because it makes perfect sense. They don't have to ask why that woman is showing her breast, because she has logical reason to be doing so. When we go to the lake, or a swimming pool, or water park, they don't ask why the girls aren't wearing more clothes. This just goes to show that they aren't bothered by the lack of clothing because they've never seen anything or they're sheltered or even because they are caused to have a sexual reaction. They are simply confused by the desire of some girls to walk around with their body mostly uncovered for absolutely no reason what so ever.
I'm not sure if any of that is helpful, but it is definitely one perspective that is not normally considered. My perspective is much like my boys...why walk around with your body so exposed? I don't judge you and I don't have a sexual or negative reaction to you, I just don't understand.
I'm not sure that the modesty conversation is only about the sexual nature. While I know that many women find security or pleasure in feeling/looking sexy, I really believe that many other women dress how they're comfortable and don't even rationally consider that it would appear in a sexual way to others. They are just totally comfortable in less material and don't give it a second thought.
Also, I can understand what another responder on Facebook said about women being insecure and judging other women just as much as men looking at those women sexually. Since I've struggled with weight gain the last few years, I could look at others and make negative comments out of jealousy or insecurity, but that is not productive or healthy; it also completely unfair as my weight gain has nothing to do with them.
If my husband notices another woman and comments that she is pretty or her dress looks nice or whatever, that does not mean that he has suddenly loved me less or desired to be sexual with her. He simply noticed her and moved on, just like I probably noticed as well. There is nothing wrong with beauty. Obviously, if he were to then linger over the thought or stare, I would be uncomfortable and question his intention, but that is his issue and not hers.
However, when a woman appears in a manner that is clearly intended to be sexual, then she is also at fault for trying to lure the attention of men. If you know that a man is married and you want him to notice you, then you are wrong for that. Even if you have no intention of interacting with him, if you are seeking to gain his attention or approval, you are wrong. You are basically wanting him to notice you in a way that he should be thinking about his wife. A woman in that situation cannot claim that it is his responsibility to not think of other women that way. It is ridiculous and simple denial of personal accountability. The same goes for dressing in a way to intentionally get the attention of single guys, and then being upset or offended when they respond accordingly. You achieved your desired result, so stop acting offended or like a victim.
In truth, I don't usually look at women in less clothes and think of them as a slut or any other negative thing, I just am truly curious as to how they are comfortable. From my early teen years, when I was actually very fit and had a nice figure, I thought I was fat and unattractive. When I look at pictures of me from any time before I had children, I cannot possibly understand how I thought so negatively of my appearance. I don't know where it came from. My mother never once made comments about my appearance, she wasn't a dieter, or any of the other suggested things that cause young ladies to have low self-confidence. In every other area of my life, I was very confident and had no issues, but I always felt fat and unattractive. So, I truly cannot understand how some women feel comfortable in their own skin, especially when they are not the "ideal physical" shape. I do not mean that in any way that is negative about them, I just wish I could figure out what my problem is. Why can I not be comfortable just as I am physically (whether I'm at a lower weight, or even now)?
Now, here is the other side. When a woman is dressed in a way that literally shows her butt below the edge of her shorts, or her lacy bra is visible for all to see, or her breast are millimeters from becoming fully exposed, I do think that is a problem, whether she has a "good figure" or not. Underwear is called underwear because it goes under your clothes. In our society we have lost the art of keeping things private, whether it's airing our arguments on Facebook, talking about sex or other personal things in public or on FB, making inappropriate jokes in mixed company, or even seriously "making out" in public. It seems that everything is fair game, including wearing little to no clothing wherever you might go. I wonder, when will we realize that we haven't actually gotten many benefits from being so open? In fact, we may have done more harm than good to ourselves as a whole. It's not my place to decide for everyone, but when I was a teacher in current public schools (as recently as this past school year), I can clearly see that our teens are hurting from all the "openness." I could go on and on about it, giving you countless examples, but I won't because this is long enough. I'll simply say that the damage is severe and I fear the long term ramifications. Some of the things that I've heard and seen in the high school, are so extreme, that I couldn't even post them here because of their extremely lewd nature; yet to my students it was completely appropriate and acceptable public behavior/conversation. Even something as direct as asking, "hey, miss, are you a virgin?" Would you have ever asked your high school teacher that question, even more, would you have asked it out loud in front of the class and no one in your class think it was completely out of line or inappropriate? (Not to mention the ignorance, since the teacher is well known to be married with 3 children). If that question seems okay to you, don't dismiss what I'm saying, because that might be one of the least personal questions I've been asked.
So, here are the two examples that originally got me started on replying to this FB post.
First, my two sons (12 & 13) and I were at Walmart in May or June. I'm not sure that it was a single female or just a culmination of them, but suddenly the youngest asked me, "mom, why is it that some girls wear their shorts so short that you can see their butt? Why would anybody want to see their butt?" The conversation continued like this:
me: I'm really not sure. I guess they're comfortable in those shorts. I don't know why they want people to see their butt but I personally would rather not see it.
son1: I don't want to see anyone's butt. That's just gross. (yes, I know that most teenage boys are more sexual by their age, but they just aren't there yet)
son2: I don't want to see anybody's butt either. I don't get it.
me: believe it or not, someday you will want to see your wife's butt, you'll like her butt and you will want to see it.
son(s): that's just weird...I don't get it
me: I know you don't get it, but you will like your wife's butt. It's just how things are. God made us to be attracted to each other and part of that is a visual thing. You will like all the parts of your wife, and that is not a bad thing.
son(s): ok, I guess, but I still don't get it
me: the part I don't get is why men would want other people to see their wife's butt. I'd think that they would rather keep it for just themselves. It is a privilege to see all of each other, and it should be kept as a privilege for only our spouses.
So, some people would not like how I had this discussion with my boys, but I find it best to just be honest with them. And, the truth is, someday they will like looking at a girl's butt. Yes, I'm aware that they'll like butts other than their wife's before they get married, but that wasn't part of this conversation. Also, you can clearly see that I did not in anyway demean the women who wear the short shorts, I simply said that I do not know personally why or how, but they must be comfortable.
A few weeks later, we were sitting at Taco Bell late one night after they had been at Merge (a middle school evening gathering). A girl came in wearing a shirt that had the sleeves cut out and her black, leopard print & lace bra was visible. Depending on how much she moved, at times you could see the entire cup and everything. My youngest son saw her when she came in and he said, "what the heck is she wearing?" Then he looked at her again, with a very confused look, and said, "why would she wear that?" I said, "I don't know son, but don't look at her like that" (at this point his confused look was noticeable and turning into a negative look-like she was a mutant or something). :) We didn't continue the conversation that night because he stopped looking at her and moved on. Now, this was clearly not a situation where he was looking at her in a sexual way. He just couldn't figure out why she was dressed that way.
So, the point I want to make here is that even if children aren't looking at something sexually, they can understand that some things are private and shouldn't be publicly displayed. If they aren't used to that manner of dress, they can be confused and bothered by it. If they are used to it, they probably don't react because it is normal to them. It makes logical sense that our butts are not for everyone to see and neither are women's under garments. Interestingly enough, my boys have been to Uganda multiple times on mission trips, and they have seen women breast feeding without any covering what so ever. At no time have they been bothered by this natural occurrence because it makes perfect sense. They don't have to ask why that woman is showing her breast, because she has logical reason to be doing so. When we go to the lake, or a swimming pool, or water park, they don't ask why the girls aren't wearing more clothes. This just goes to show that they aren't bothered by the lack of clothing because they've never seen anything or they're sheltered or even because they are caused to have a sexual reaction. They are simply confused by the desire of some girls to walk around with their body mostly uncovered for absolutely no reason what so ever.
I'm not sure if any of that is helpful, but it is definitely one perspective that is not normally considered. My perspective is much like my boys...why walk around with your body so exposed? I don't judge you and I don't have a sexual or negative reaction to you, I just don't understand.
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